Wiki source for NOAnswered
====Finished conversations stored for the record====
__Sleeping Arrangements__
<#kate: I remember doing this with the girls in the dorm, and was thinking we might "arrange ourselves" within the orphanage as well, in this case picking "beds". I'm guessing "beds" is more straw mattresses or blankets on the ground than warm and cozy things. It might be more of a chaotic mess up there too, where individual "spaces" aren't really had, making this moot, but until then, I'll plow on. The image that I have is of a long rectangular room with 6 beds on the left, 7 on the right with an open hole in the floor for the stairs making up the missing bed unit. Maybe (if interested) people can pick their spots below? I realize that Ann would probably get first pick and we'd go down the line based upon arrival times, and this might be dependent on where NPC's end up but I thought I'd start the potential discussion. The WBed at 6 and 8 is my way of representing the one window we apparently have according to Kel. The Left Side also overlooks the Garden and Cemetery while the Right side is on the Hotel and Kitchen side of things. The main entrance is on the first floor below Bed's 12 and 13 while the tower is above stairs and bed 1. Hopefully that makes some sense. #>
__Number of Children at the Orphanage__
<#ann: I have a question: How many children are in the orphanage in total? Are we the only ones, are there dozens/scores/hundreds? - Ann#>
**There are between 7 and 12 children in the orphanage. So the PCs + a few others. I have not fully fleshed out the other characters yet. I would like to get some idea of the other PCs personalities, so the characters that I make do not overlap too heavily. E.G. if Cole is a big troublemaker, then I don't want to make a troublemaker character.**
__Starting Date Discussion/Single Sex v. Mixed Orphanage Discussion/Education and Vocational Training Discussion__
<#kate: Hey all. Been thinking about my character (gasp) and was wondering if we could tweak some of the years so that her respective ages could make sense? I'm hoping to have her be 21-22 in 1880, while arriving at the orphanage around 9, putting the "start year" around 1867-68 rather than 1865. I was also hoping she would be the 4th or 5th of the PC's to arrive as well. Not sure if any of that works, but let me know. Happy character developing. Kate. #>
<#ann: I don't have a problem with that. I did some initial investigating, and while the majority of orphanages were single sex, I did find records specifically in New Orleans that referenced sending both male and female children to the same institution, and other records that talk about the Blank Orphanage for Girls and Blank Orphanage for Boys, which imply sister schools, so that's not too much of a problem. I have found numerous references to integrated schools in New Orleans in this period (thought by the end of the century that had changed), so if we decide to be an integrated orphanage, I think we can let that slide. I'm still looking for more detailed information about what it was like to live in an orphanage in this time period, but signs seem to indicate that schooling would be important. Almost every reference to NO orphanages mention 'good education' (though of course the official press is hardly going to say otherwise.) Most mention teaching girls to sew, and several say they teach boys 'a useful trade'. At least one orphanage in NO was doing the laundry of hotels and steamboats, so that might be something to think about.) #>
<#bill: The other option is that was make the game happen earlier....like 1878 or so. I think I would prefer that option, but I can go either way. #>
<#court: Shifting the timing either of the ways mentioned is fine with me! And I think my character would be good arriving at the orphanage earlyish, so that shouldn't be in conflict for arrival order! -ct. #>
<#jonah: JP: I have no problem with that date adjustment. If you have something cool in mind, I'd say let's go for it. (As an aside, don't forget that the new wiki syntax works! I've updated the above text to use the new stuff. #>
__Balcony and Piano Discussion__
<#kate: I'd like a balcony (maybe iron wrought like they have in all those pictures) where you can hear music and maybe see some of the fancy folks in town. -Kate #>
<#ann: If there is a high tower, would we need a balcony? I sort of like the idea of sneaking out on the roof/tower to listen to the music. It gives it a forbidden air. In response to being a factory/hotel, I would vote for the hotel. There's much more varied work and more physical work in running a hotel than in working in a factory. Learning to sew, do laundry, cook, etc can be useful skills. -Ann #>
<#kate: I'm cool if the tower = balcony. I just wanted a place where my character could hang out (sneak out more probably) and listen to music. In reply to the hotel / factory - could we do both? The girls at the hotel, the boys at the factory? I hate to be stereotypical but I feel like the guys would be put to work in a more physically demanding environment (hauling stuff, chopping, working with machines) while the girls might be more the laundry, cooking route. Either way works for me really, just wanted to voice the option. Since my hope is to have a musically inclined character, could there be a piano in the hotel? - Kate #>
**Piano is a go in the hotel.
I would prefer if everyone is in the same place. I can find lots of manual labor for the boys to do (chop wood, haul landry, carpentry, plumbing, etc)**
<#ann: It's the physical nature of doing laundry and baking bread that I'm counting on to build my muscles! Sewing is tedious and sedentary, but that's about the only household task that is not back-breaking. But I'm down with making it a hybrid hotel/factory if that's what we want. There's more scope there for people being able to either gain a skill they want to have or make their lives miserable in a particular way, whichever path they want to take with the character-Ann#>
__Sibling Discussion___
<#court: Factory/hotel/balcony all sound great! I also wanted to bring up the possibility of siblings again... J and Bill I think expressed initial interest, but as everyone thinks about their characters more, I wanted to check in again. I will start an email thread or create a subpage for whoever wants to jump on the bandwagon! My initial thought was to create a family in which mental illness of a parent was a prime factor in the child(ren) going to the orphanage. I've been doing some research and thinking and can bat around ideas with whoever lets me know they'd like to! =) -Court#>
**Subpage for the siblings go!**
<#bill: l Kel, did you create a subpage somewhere that I'm not seeing? Or are you just telling us to go ahead and create one? #>
<#kate: Hey Court - Sounds fun but I think I'll skip on the siblings at this point. My vote would be for the hotel if we're only doing one. -Kate #>
<#court: Here's that subpage! [[SiblingsPossibilities]] #>
__Abner Hayes Question and Answer___
<#bill: Question: I took a look at the share docs in google and noticed that one of the rooms is listed as belonging to Abner Hayes. Who is that? #>
<#kate: Kel didn't have time to add a paragraph about him, but he's a regular resident at the hotel. Description forthcoming: [[AbnerHayes]]. #>
**Done**
__Helpful Links__
<#kate: Ann already found the Picayune (through BPL if you're interested) but here's a link to more local newspapers of the era:
[[http://sites.google.com/site/onlinenewspapersite/Home/usa/la Louisiana Online Historical Newspapers]] #>
<#kate: Syntax in use! Also, I hope these work. [[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1trMiFR3yc-OZHncEyPu46eYQy65aRASIpjuIswCDIyQ/edit Orphans and Orphanages]] and [[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QxFX5tGrH4XJMDHaosts29tKv2vn3BREz51RyQuo5Fc/edit Orphanages]] They might be interesting reads and suggest some different family dynamics than just having both parents deceased. - kate #>
__NPC Descriptions__
[[VincentBlack Vincent]] and [[RoseBlack Rose Black]] run the [[TheStJamesHotel St. James Hotel]]. A large hotel that is in the heart of the French Quarter (Address needed. Adjacent buildings needed.)
The children have little interaction with Mr. Black. He is a stern man, tall and thin, with gray edges to his dark black hair. He smokes a pipe and likes to keep to himself. He drinks in the evenings, and generally seems sour and sad. He never talks with the children.
Rose is a very devout Christian and attends Church every Sunday, and participates in all the Church functions. (Church name needed). She insists that all the children attend Sunday service with her. She is the reason that the Orphanage is open, and she wants to make sure to save the children's souls.
The children are lead to church all tied together with some rope (to keep them together) they are sat in the back and prayed at.
After Church, Sunday afternoon is the only real "free time" besides evenings that the children have. They are left a bit to their own devices. They are however expected to be in at 6 sharp (if the last bell rings and your not home, you are in BIG trouble) for Sunday Dinner. The staff and the children eat together that one meal. The staff and children eat in a small side room, the Black's and the guests ear in the large hotel dining room.
Other meals, the children are fed in the kitchen after the staff have eaten, 8pm (by the church bells) then off to bed.
The children all sleep in the same room, at the top of the stairs in the orphanage, the bedroom has a single window, which can be used to access the tower, otherwise the window looks out over the cemetery.
The Hotel was used by Confederate Soldiers as a way station during the war. Mr. Black is a strong Confederate supporter, and a Confederate flag hangs in the Black's apartment. There is a piano in the Hotel parlor.
[[TheStJamesOrphanage The Saint James Orphanage]] is attached to the hotel via a small dirty alley, which is the path the children workers take to the hotel early each morning. The Blacks live in an apartment in the hotel.
Rose, much like her name loves flowers, she maintains a sizable garden, one of the children's jobs is to tend the garden there. She displays her flowers on the front desk of the hotel, and everywhere else she can. When the garden is not producing, she pays an exorbitant sum to have flowers brought in.
Rumors is that the Blacks had two children a boy and a girl, its unclear what happened to them, the staff doesn't know or doesn't say. There are pictures of several people who look like the Blacks on the mantle in the den of the Black's apartment, but it is unclear if they are relatives or children. (Children being children can feel free to make up what they think the truth is.)
A long time ago, the Orphanage and the Hotel were a church complex, and it gate still is attached to a small cemetery. The only bit of the Church that remains is what used to be the bell tower, the bells are long gone but the tall spiral tower remains attached to the Orphanage. By crawling out of one of the upstairs windows, and along the rooftop the children can reach the tower which still has a small room where the bells used to be. From this room they can overlook most of the city and hear music floating in from downtown.
The head of the staff is [[MartinFrench Mr. Martin French]]. He is a short stout man that is all muscle. He's bald with a thick black beard and a loud voice and smile. He shows up to work every day in his fine pressed tuxedo. He is very proud of his job. He interacts with the children, calling them his "little soldiers." He is not mean, but expects the children to do the jobs they are assigned and is not afraid of beating children who misbehave, or slack off in their duties. As a policy each child is beaten their first day so that they "know what it feels like."
It is unlikely that his last name is actually French, but he does speak fluent French, and will use it to converse with the the Creole staff. He was an officer during the war, and has some wartime connections to Mr. Black, but he does not speak of it. He is very reverent of Mr. Black and will never speak ill of him.
<#bill: Question: The description above says that "French" is probably not really is last name - that's why I didn't make him a page when I was making pages for the Blacks et al. I take it, we've decided that French is actually his last name? Does that mean we can remove that outdated part of the text? Will we eventually get a last name for Nora? Or is she like Madonna? #>
**Nora has no last name based on her life as a slave.
I dont know where you got that assumption Bill but it would be wrong.
No one ever calls "Mr. French" by any other last name, but the Black's never call him that, they call him Martin. It is common knowledge that Mr. French, is not his correct last name, but it is unknown to the PCs what his real last name is.**
The Chef, [[LouisLavinie Louis Lavinie]], is the only other white staff member. A huge fat man he has a jolly laugh and thick red hair. He claims to have been "classically" trained but has no "proof" other than that his food is tasty. He loves the children, and is constantly sneaking them treats and things (much to the chagrin of Mr. French). Louis can read and write and teaches any interested children the same skills. (Anyone who is interested would learn the basics from Louis, and then once they showed the aptitude, would be given jobs (signing in guests etc) to improve their skills.) Other than on the job training, Sunday School, and lessons from Louis the children have no other formal education.
[[Nora]], a willowy black woman is the head maid. She was Mr. Black's slave, and still basically is in all but name. He treats her well and she runs the house and hotel in the shadow of Mr. French. Mr. French is big and vocal, the face of the hotel, and is "in charge" but the place really dances to the beat of Nora. She believes good help is doing things before people realize they need to be done, and that includes whipping the children if necessary. Cross Mr. French and you earn a beating and lack of supper. Cross Nora and your life is hell, and the children know it. They don't so much hate her as they do fear her. Her word is law, but as long as you do your job and stay on her good side all doors will remain open for you.
[[ElizabethClark Elizabeth Clark]], the matron, is the person the children interact with the most. She is employed by Mrs. Black to do the real work involved with running the orphanage. Keeping the children clothed and fed, putting them to bed, caring for them when they are sick, all these tasks fall to Elizabeth, or Mrs. Lizzy as the children sometimes call her. She lives and sleeps in a small room underneath the loft where the children sleep, acting as both a caretaker and a prison guard. She is not cruel to the children, but this is a job for her and she treats it like one. She is very even handed with the children and by the nature of Nora and Mr. French ends up being the good cop more often than not. She is not above spanking and punishments, but at the end of the day, the children's best interest are in the forefront of her mind. She is a large (big, tall and muscular, not fat) creole woman, with a big laugh. She and Louis flirt a lot but nothing more appears to come of that, otherwise she spends her nights alone. If she is not actively dealing with the children (when they are at work, for example) she acts as a maid / laundrywoman. The linens and other sundries are stored in the large open area under the loft where the children sleep.
[[AbnerHayes Abner Hayes]]
Note: There are between seven and twelve at the orphanage at any given time.
__Lack of Different Children Discussion__
<#bill: Question: Normally, I'd think that orphanage have a relatively steady ebb and flow of children. Children come in...children age out and leave...children come in. The way we have it set up and it seems all of the children at the orphanage (not just the PCs) are about the same age and there's no older children leaving while younger/newer children enter. That may be just a practical issue...I can see having to create enough NPCs for 10 years in people coming and going being a lot of work for Kel. But I wanted to ask: 1) Is that on purpose? 2) If so, is there an in-game reason for it? (like the orphanage just opened up recently and this is the first crop of kids?) #>
**You are absolutely correct that it is a pratical thing, that creating 30+ NPCs to keep the orphanage stocked, would break Kelly's tiny little mind.
The in game justification is that Mrs. Black starts up the orphanage, and likes "raising the children" but at some point after Ella comes to realize that they dont really have the money to keep this up. So they stop looking for "new" children, and just deal with the ones that they have.**
__Posed Questions by Kate__
<#kate: Kate has some questions for folk. Many might need to wait until earlier events are figured out, some might be none of my business =P but I need to get them out of my head before I go...more crazy: #>
1. <#kate: Court: Do you think Jeanne's native language becomes apparent? I think it would be neat, and something Ella would be curious about, if only learning a few phrases here and there rather than becoming fluent or anything. #>
<#court: Yes - I think it's definitely apparent. I suspect she's old enough that she will retain an accent at least while she is at the orphanage, and we'll see what happens for later. And even though she'll gain English fluency quickly, I suspect she will retain some odd turns of phrase that will pop up periodically. #>
<#kate: Cool. I bet this will come out in the events but I'll keep my ear out for stuff that Ella might pick up #>
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2. <#kate: Court & Jonah: You guys have two different dates for your characters arrival. Given that your siblings, is there a reason the other characters would know? #>
<#court: There is a reason, and the other characters will probably be told something. However, to figure out exactly what they are told, I believe that should play out in our arrival scenes or, if it doesn't come up there, in another event soon after. #><#jonah: What she said. #>
<#kate: Neat I'll look forward to it =) #>
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3. <#kate: Jonah: You mention Ollie likes dancing. Do you mean he's just wiggly or does he like to / grows to like more "formal" dancing (like steps not tuxedo waltz)? Ella definitely likes to dance and might abscond with him if he's a willing partner =). #>
<#jonah: I think he'd be up for it! I imagine sometime in his teen years he could be entertained by perhaps a jazz club or a zydeco party... (I'm not sure what's historically appropriate, but that's a minor matter!) #>
<#kate: Very fun. This brings up another question (see below!) #>
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4. <#kate: Bill & Jonah: How does Cole / Ollie get their nickname? Cole introduces himself as Nicolas in the initial Ella event, so does it come after that? How about Ollie or does is he always called that? #>
<#jonah: At least for Ollie, he gets his nickname from his family. His real name is Olivier, but apparently Ollie is a reasonably historically popular Cajun nickname. He's going to arrive with very little English (much like Jeanne) but I think he learns quickly, both from the other kids (perhaps Celeste?) and from Mr. French. #>
**Mr. French is not much of a teacher, but he would use French if it was clear that Ollie (or anyone) didnt speak English.**
<#bill: Kate, I hadn't 'officially' decided. Cole is an established nickname/diminutive form of Nicholas - so that would be the easy answer. There's also his 'coal' black hair and dark eyes... so maybe that's how he picks it up. But I will say that he definitely doesn't come to the orphanage calling himself Cole. I am content for it to come about at the orphanage if that's what happens, but it's fine if it doesn't. Maybe he picks it up in the military or sometime later as an adult. I will note for Kel that it is a nickname he likes, so I'd ask that it's not a name that any npcs whom he doesn't like come up with for him (like Mr. French, I'm pretty sure he'd not going to like Mr. French). If it doesn't happen at the orphanage or by the time our game comes to a close, that's cool. #>
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5. <#kate: Bill & Kelly: How does Cole carry his soldiers around? How does Callahan keep his coin? #>
**Callahan keeps his coin in his left shoe when he goes about his day. He often has it in his hand as well. (He looks at it before he goes to bed and puts it under his pillow when he sleeps.)**
<#bill: I think he just keeps them in his pockets. They are pretty small. Now, that may change should issues arrive at the orphanage. If one of the adults tries to take them away or kids try to take them he'd have to get a little more creative in how he holds on to them. No shoe thought...that would hurt. #>
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6. <#kate: Ann & Kelly: How does this seem to you? [[PianoEvent]] #>
<#bill: Maybe I missed something...Why is there a piano event already? It seems premature as I'm not sure we can say who is there or not. #>
**Its in progress. The idea is to have stuff to drop in, once characters establish they are doing things other characters and figure out if they are involved and things can evolve and change. I have the core characters dealing with stuff. If it later turns out that Cole would be involved with the event then we will alter it.
In the same way I would be happy to have Cole having an event where he goes hunting with Abner and Callahan if you think that would happen, and then we will evolve it if other PCs feel they would be invovled.
I dont see what the problem is.**
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7. <#kate: Kelly: When does Callahan first discover the Bell Tower? I'm assuming well before Ella's arrival, but thought it might be a good Timeline Event to include. #>
**Callahan knows about the Bell Tower before any of the PCs get there. He is happy to show anyone brave enough to go out on the roof it at his earliest opportunity.**
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8. <#kate: Can anyone go out to the Bell Tower or is it King Callahan's domain (especially with his money stash up there?) or some kind of rite of passage?
#>
**Anyone can go out there, as I said Cal is happy to show people, he likes showing off. He keeps his stash of money out there, and I feel like other characters keep important things they dont want the adults to be able to get at out there as well. He sleeps by the window and usually knows who comes and goes, so it would be difficult for someone to take his money, but if someone feels like they would we should have an event!**
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9. <#kate: How does Erin react to Shawn's adventuring? #>
**Erin has a "boys will be boys" mentality, she worries about him, but she is not mad.**
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10. <#kate: Is there some kind of curfew those who sneak out adhere to? I feel like Ella would be one of them, and would be interested to know if there are "rules" the children have figured out. #>
**The children are "in bed" after dinner, and are expected to be up and starting work at 5 am. There is no curfew, but if you are late for work, or sleeping on the job then punishment ensues. Also if you are not in your bed at 5 a.m. when Mrs Lizzy comes to "check" there is hell to pay.**
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11. <#kate: Are there any "hazing traditions" besides Mr. French's initial beating? #>
**Introduction to the Bell Tower, nothing else that I know of.**
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12. <#kate: I'm trying to get a feel for how old the other orphans are when Ella arrives (selfish I know). I realize that precise ages may not be available as the kids might not know, but a general sense would be great: #>
<#kate: a. Deco arrives in 1866 at "a very young age" - like 3? 5? #>
**I'll reserve rights to change things as I sort this out, but Ill make educated guesses.
5 for Deco.**
<#kate: b. Jefferson was left at 6 but you don't mention a year. Any idea on how long he's been there? #>
**A while. Let's say he's 10 when you arrive?**
<#kate: c. Who is older, Erin and Shawn and by how much or are they twins? How old are they when they arrive in 1865?
#>
**They are twins. 9**
<#kate: d. How old is Valerie? #>
**Indeterminate, young but acts very mature. say 8**
<#kate: e. How old is Callahan? #>
**10**
<#kate: Cool so just to consolidate for my brain in 1869:#>
- Callahan: 10
- Celeste: 11
- Deco: 9 <#ann: I think he is 8 in 1869 if he is 5 in 1866, though of course it depends on where his birthday falls.#>
- Ella: 9
- Jeanne: 10
- Jefferson: 10
- Minnie: 10
- Nicholas: 9 <#ann: I think it's 10. Bill, confirm?#> <#bill: Depends when in 1869. OOG, his d.o.b. is Dec. 21, 1859 - so, probably 9?#>
- Ollie: 8
- Shawn and Erin (twins): 9 - <#ann: if they are 9 when they arrive in 1865, shouldn't they be 13 in 1869? #> <#kate: I know Kel was aiming to have folks be around the same age - so maybe he meant 9 in 1869 in the above? I don't really care, but in terms of meeting people it's definitely different to meet a 9 than a 13 year old, and I find it weird that Shawn would follow around Callahan if he's that much older#> **Kate is right with the intent to have everyone around the same age. So 9? My brain is broken when it comes to this.** <#kate: Okay - so to conclude, Erin and Shawn are 9 in 1869. #>
- Valerie: 8 - acts very mature.
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13. <#kate: You mention Erin's particularly cute (Ollie apparently is too). Is there any effort to get these kids into real homes? #>
**This is just me, but I don't see a particular push for adoption.**
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14. <#kate: You mention Louis being willing to teach kids to read / write. I feel like Ella gets inspired because she finds the music (see her description on the timeline page). Are these teachings like lessons too? Like there's a time and place for it Ella would note and be able to jump in on or something to ask about? #>
**Louis just does it after dinner, reading to the children, having them read him recipes and things.**
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__Lessons Discussion__
15. <#kate: Maybe much will be clarified if we could work out how the lessons work. I would think they'd happen daily, maybe after morning chores, and Elizabeth would teach them. The whole schooling aspect just strikes me as odd given that they're supposed to be little worker bees. Perhaps that's just me... #>
<#ann: Kate, I'm confused why you think the schooling aspect is odd given that they're worker bees. They aren't being schooled, that's the point. Louis just sort of shows the kids who are interested when they ask, rather than having a formal school time. I'd imagine that some days all the kids want some lessons, other days everyone is too tired, and on most days only a couple kids bother, though, as always, Kelly can correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding. #>
<#kate: This is pretty irrelevant a clarification now, but that was my point: They are worker bees which shouldn't include being schooled unless more randomly by Louis I believe the below contradicts this, which is 100% fine, but that was why I brought it up for discussion. #>
**I think Ann has it right, there are no direct lessons unless a child shows some sort of talent or aptitude.**
**No schooling, see above**
<#jonah: I disagree - the documents describing the history of orphanages were pretty clear that education //was// a priority!
From [[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QxFX5tGrH4XJMDHaosts29tKv2vn3BREz51RyQuo5Fc/edit?pli=1 Orphanages]] (posted earlier by Kate):
By the mid-nineteenth century education was emphasized over work, and middle-class women, who dedicated their time to nurturing their children and doing charity work, were actively involved in social issues pertaining to children. They played an important part in the antebellum reform movement, from the 1830s to 1860s. The reformers, responding to growing urban poverty and influenced by the transcendentalists, sought to provide shelter and education in the midst of nature for orphaned, neglected, abused, abandoned, and delinquent children.
They believed that separating children from adults in almshouses, placing them in institutions in rural areas, structuring their activities, and educating them would turn them into good citizens. For children who had already experienced a life of vice in the city, the reformers established industrial homes, houses of refuge, and reformatories with an emphasis on work and vocational education. The innocent poor–orphaned, abandoned, and neglected children–were educated in orphanages. Some institutions were defined by gender and others had age restrictions. By 1860 orphanages could be found in almost all states of the union. Only a few new states, and small states without urban centers, did not have any orphanages.
I'm ok if we want to make this into the orphanage from Annie or Oliver Twist, but since I know that some folks have an affection for keeping things accurate, I feel like we should give the Blacks some credit and let them run this orphanage under a philosophy similar to what's described above as "industrial homes" with "vocational education". That, to me, would certainly mean lessons in reading and writing, and math lessons as well.
Adding Needs for opinions on the question of education: #>
**Okay thats fair. I think they are getting plenty of "vocational" education, they get on the job training of cooking and cleaning basically. I am okay with them getting lessons as well, but none of the current characters are really set up to teach them. I will have to think how I am going to handle this NPC wise.
Also I am curious to how other people feel about this.
My gut is that a teacher (paid for by the Blacks) is brought in to teach the kids during the slow part of the day (10ish post checkout till 3 when guests start coming in...)**
<#kate: I'm cool with being schooled or not, whatever floats. If so, why can't Elizabeth teach them? She gets them up, they work until breakfast, do a lesson during breakfast (eat and write their letters or whatever), work, lesson 2 of the day maybe with a mid-day snack, work again, dinner, lesson, bed?#>
<#court: I like the idea of Elizabeth doing something formal, and Louis doing his ad hoc thing. Works for me! #>
<#bill: I'm generally in favor of the the realistic, until there's a good (read: fun) reason to deviate. So if education is the norm, then I say let's do it. But if someone's got an idea about how less education could lead to a good story/more fun, then I say we make history whatever we want it to be. Otherwise, I have no preference. #>
**Okay lets go with Elizabeth teaching. It means that the teaching cannot progress too much past basic reading and writing and math, since Elizabeth is not super educated herself but at least gives the kids the basics.**
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16. <#kate: Just being detail oriented, but I wanted to shoot this out there as an "average" day for these kids so I can picture it better in my head. Amend, comment, argue and all that:
Weekdays: (Monday thru Saturday)
5:00 am Wake up
5:15-10:00 am Work (prepping breakfast, cleaning, etc.)
10:00**-10:30** am Breakfast
**10:30-11:30** am Lessons with Elizabeth
11:30-2:00 pm Work (prepping lunch, cleaning, etc.)
2:00-4:00 pm Lessons with Elizabeth
4:00-8:00 pm Work (prepping dinner, cleaning, etc.)
8:00 pm Dinner (crust in hand)
8:15-9:15 pm Lessons with Louis
9:15 pm "Bed" (i.e. go upstairs and don't cause me (Lizzy) problems) #>
**Changed some times**
<#kate: Sunday:
5:00 am Wake up
5:15-9:00 am Work (prepping breakfast, cleaning, etc.)
9:00-9:15 am Clean up and Breakfast
9:15-9:30 am Walk to Church <#bill: - the children are lead, all tied together with a piece of rope#>
10:00-11:00 am Church Service
**11:00-5 - Free time**
++
11:15-3:00 pm Work (prepping lunch, cleaning, etc.)
3:00-4:00 pm Lunch / Lessons with Elizabeth
4:00-8:00 pm Work (prepping dinner, cleaning, etc.)++
**5:00 - 8:00pm Work (Prep dinner, clean, etc)**
8:00-8:30 pm Sit down dinner
8:30-9:15 pm Lessons with Louis
9:15 pm "Bed" (i.e. go upstairs and don't cause me (Lizzy) problems) #>
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__Sneaking Out Participants__
17. <#kate: This might need to wait until folks figure out more stuff but Jonah's answer above made me wonder who among the NPCs / PCs might be of the sneaking out inclination? I'm guessing Minnie, Valerie (unless it's to the cemetery), and Erin are nos, and I'd think Jefferson and Deco would fit into this too although they might be convinced. Ella's obviously a yes and it seems Callahan and Shawn would be too. How about the others?#>
<#court: Jeanne would be of a mind to sneak out, as long as she had a reason, be it to rebel or to support anyone she ends up bonding with. #>
<#jonah: Ollie might well be convinced as well. If there was excitement to be had, he'd be in. If you were sneaking out to do something he found "boooooring" he might just skip... or come anyway. #>
<#bill: Cole is motivated by two main things: Curiosity and a lust for adventure. So, if either it seemed like an adventure (probable) or it seemed that there was something new or interesting to see or learn, he'd be first in line to sneak out. Like Ollie, if he thought the purported goal was boring, he might not bother to risk the punishment. #>
**So it sounds like the list of sneakers thus far is:
1) Callahan
2) Shawn
3) Ella
4) Ollie
5) Cole
6) Jeanne
7) Celeste**
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18. <#kate: Are there other instruments in the hotel? maybe with Abner (like a harmonica, guitar, whatever)? I feel like Ella'd jump on any she can get her hands on. #>
**There are various guests that come though that may have things, Abner has several noise making things (a flute, a harmonica, etc) but there are no other instruments in the hotel.**
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19. <#kate: How are the kids tied together for Church? By the waist? Wrist? In my mind I see them lined up by height for some reason and then lassoed. #>
**They are tied around the waist, I don't think they worry too much about height.**
__Sleeping Arrangements__
<#kate: I remember doing this with the girls in the dorm, and was thinking we might "arrange ourselves" within the orphanage as well, in this case picking "beds". I'm guessing "beds" is more straw mattresses or blankets on the ground than warm and cozy things. It might be more of a chaotic mess up there too, where individual "spaces" aren't really had, making this moot, but until then, I'll plow on. The image that I have is of a long rectangular room with 6 beds on the left, 7 on the right with an open hole in the floor for the stairs making up the missing bed unit. Maybe (if interested) people can pick their spots below? I realize that Ann would probably get first pick and we'd go down the line based upon arrival times, and this might be dependent on where NPC's end up but I thought I'd start the potential discussion. The WBed at 6 and 8 is my way of representing the one window we apparently have according to Kel. The Left Side also overlooks the Garden and Cemetery while the Right side is on the Hotel and Kitchen side of things. The main entrance is on the first floor below Bed's 12 and 13 while the tower is above stairs and bed 1. Hopefully that makes some sense. #>
__Number of Children at the Orphanage__
<#ann: I have a question: How many children are in the orphanage in total? Are we the only ones, are there dozens/scores/hundreds? - Ann#>
**There are between 7 and 12 children in the orphanage. So the PCs + a few others. I have not fully fleshed out the other characters yet. I would like to get some idea of the other PCs personalities, so the characters that I make do not overlap too heavily. E.G. if Cole is a big troublemaker, then I don't want to make a troublemaker character.**
__Starting Date Discussion/Single Sex v. Mixed Orphanage Discussion/Education and Vocational Training Discussion__
<#kate: Hey all. Been thinking about my character (gasp) and was wondering if we could tweak some of the years so that her respective ages could make sense? I'm hoping to have her be 21-22 in 1880, while arriving at the orphanage around 9, putting the "start year" around 1867-68 rather than 1865. I was also hoping she would be the 4th or 5th of the PC's to arrive as well. Not sure if any of that works, but let me know. Happy character developing. Kate. #>
<#ann: I don't have a problem with that. I did some initial investigating, and while the majority of orphanages were single sex, I did find records specifically in New Orleans that referenced sending both male and female children to the same institution, and other records that talk about the Blank Orphanage for Girls and Blank Orphanage for Boys, which imply sister schools, so that's not too much of a problem. I have found numerous references to integrated schools in New Orleans in this period (thought by the end of the century that had changed), so if we decide to be an integrated orphanage, I think we can let that slide. I'm still looking for more detailed information about what it was like to live in an orphanage in this time period, but signs seem to indicate that schooling would be important. Almost every reference to NO orphanages mention 'good education' (though of course the official press is hardly going to say otherwise.) Most mention teaching girls to sew, and several say they teach boys 'a useful trade'. At least one orphanage in NO was doing the laundry of hotels and steamboats, so that might be something to think about.) #>
<#bill: The other option is that was make the game happen earlier....like 1878 or so. I think I would prefer that option, but I can go either way. #>
<#court: Shifting the timing either of the ways mentioned is fine with me! And I think my character would be good arriving at the orphanage earlyish, so that shouldn't be in conflict for arrival order! -ct. #>
<#jonah: JP: I have no problem with that date adjustment. If you have something cool in mind, I'd say let's go for it. (As an aside, don't forget that the new wiki syntax works! I've updated the above text to use the new stuff. #>
__Balcony and Piano Discussion__
<#kate: I'd like a balcony (maybe iron wrought like they have in all those pictures) where you can hear music and maybe see some of the fancy folks in town. -Kate #>
<#ann: If there is a high tower, would we need a balcony? I sort of like the idea of sneaking out on the roof/tower to listen to the music. It gives it a forbidden air. In response to being a factory/hotel, I would vote for the hotel. There's much more varied work and more physical work in running a hotel than in working in a factory. Learning to sew, do laundry, cook, etc can be useful skills. -Ann #>
<#kate: I'm cool if the tower = balcony. I just wanted a place where my character could hang out (sneak out more probably) and listen to music. In reply to the hotel / factory - could we do both? The girls at the hotel, the boys at the factory? I hate to be stereotypical but I feel like the guys would be put to work in a more physically demanding environment (hauling stuff, chopping, working with machines) while the girls might be more the laundry, cooking route. Either way works for me really, just wanted to voice the option. Since my hope is to have a musically inclined character, could there be a piano in the hotel? - Kate #>
**Piano is a go in the hotel.
I would prefer if everyone is in the same place. I can find lots of manual labor for the boys to do (chop wood, haul landry, carpentry, plumbing, etc)**
<#ann: It's the physical nature of doing laundry and baking bread that I'm counting on to build my muscles! Sewing is tedious and sedentary, but that's about the only household task that is not back-breaking. But I'm down with making it a hybrid hotel/factory if that's what we want. There's more scope there for people being able to either gain a skill they want to have or make their lives miserable in a particular way, whichever path they want to take with the character-Ann#>
__Sibling Discussion___
<#court: Factory/hotel/balcony all sound great! I also wanted to bring up the possibility of siblings again... J and Bill I think expressed initial interest, but as everyone thinks about their characters more, I wanted to check in again. I will start an email thread or create a subpage for whoever wants to jump on the bandwagon! My initial thought was to create a family in which mental illness of a parent was a prime factor in the child(ren) going to the orphanage. I've been doing some research and thinking and can bat around ideas with whoever lets me know they'd like to! =) -Court#>
**Subpage for the siblings go!**
<#bill: l Kel, did you create a subpage somewhere that I'm not seeing? Or are you just telling us to go ahead and create one? #>
<#kate: Hey Court - Sounds fun but I think I'll skip on the siblings at this point. My vote would be for the hotel if we're only doing one. -Kate #>
<#court: Here's that subpage! [[SiblingsPossibilities]] #>
__Abner Hayes Question and Answer___
<#bill: Question: I took a look at the share docs in google and noticed that one of the rooms is listed as belonging to Abner Hayes. Who is that? #>
<#kate: Kel didn't have time to add a paragraph about him, but he's a regular resident at the hotel. Description forthcoming: [[AbnerHayes]]. #>
**Done**
__Helpful Links__
<#kate: Ann already found the Picayune (through BPL if you're interested) but here's a link to more local newspapers of the era:
[[http://sites.google.com/site/onlinenewspapersite/Home/usa/la Louisiana Online Historical Newspapers]] #>
<#kate: Syntax in use! Also, I hope these work. [[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1trMiFR3yc-OZHncEyPu46eYQy65aRASIpjuIswCDIyQ/edit Orphans and Orphanages]] and [[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QxFX5tGrH4XJMDHaosts29tKv2vn3BREz51RyQuo5Fc/edit Orphanages]] They might be interesting reads and suggest some different family dynamics than just having both parents deceased. - kate #>
__NPC Descriptions__
[[VincentBlack Vincent]] and [[RoseBlack Rose Black]] run the [[TheStJamesHotel St. James Hotel]]. A large hotel that is in the heart of the French Quarter (Address needed. Adjacent buildings needed.)
The children have little interaction with Mr. Black. He is a stern man, tall and thin, with gray edges to his dark black hair. He smokes a pipe and likes to keep to himself. He drinks in the evenings, and generally seems sour and sad. He never talks with the children.
Rose is a very devout Christian and attends Church every Sunday, and participates in all the Church functions. (Church name needed). She insists that all the children attend Sunday service with her. She is the reason that the Orphanage is open, and she wants to make sure to save the children's souls.
The children are lead to church all tied together with some rope (to keep them together) they are sat in the back and prayed at.
After Church, Sunday afternoon is the only real "free time" besides evenings that the children have. They are left a bit to their own devices. They are however expected to be in at 6 sharp (if the last bell rings and your not home, you are in BIG trouble) for Sunday Dinner. The staff and the children eat together that one meal. The staff and children eat in a small side room, the Black's and the guests ear in the large hotel dining room.
Other meals, the children are fed in the kitchen after the staff have eaten, 8pm (by the church bells) then off to bed.
The children all sleep in the same room, at the top of the stairs in the orphanage, the bedroom has a single window, which can be used to access the tower, otherwise the window looks out over the cemetery.
The Hotel was used by Confederate Soldiers as a way station during the war. Mr. Black is a strong Confederate supporter, and a Confederate flag hangs in the Black's apartment. There is a piano in the Hotel parlor.
[[TheStJamesOrphanage The Saint James Orphanage]] is attached to the hotel via a small dirty alley, which is the path the children workers take to the hotel early each morning. The Blacks live in an apartment in the hotel.
Rose, much like her name loves flowers, she maintains a sizable garden, one of the children's jobs is to tend the garden there. She displays her flowers on the front desk of the hotel, and everywhere else she can. When the garden is not producing, she pays an exorbitant sum to have flowers brought in.
Rumors is that the Blacks had two children a boy and a girl, its unclear what happened to them, the staff doesn't know or doesn't say. There are pictures of several people who look like the Blacks on the mantle in the den of the Black's apartment, but it is unclear if they are relatives or children. (Children being children can feel free to make up what they think the truth is.)
A long time ago, the Orphanage and the Hotel were a church complex, and it gate still is attached to a small cemetery. The only bit of the Church that remains is what used to be the bell tower, the bells are long gone but the tall spiral tower remains attached to the Orphanage. By crawling out of one of the upstairs windows, and along the rooftop the children can reach the tower which still has a small room where the bells used to be. From this room they can overlook most of the city and hear music floating in from downtown.
The head of the staff is [[MartinFrench Mr. Martin French]]. He is a short stout man that is all muscle. He's bald with a thick black beard and a loud voice and smile. He shows up to work every day in his fine pressed tuxedo. He is very proud of his job. He interacts with the children, calling them his "little soldiers." He is not mean, but expects the children to do the jobs they are assigned and is not afraid of beating children who misbehave, or slack off in their duties. As a policy each child is beaten their first day so that they "know what it feels like."
It is unlikely that his last name is actually French, but he does speak fluent French, and will use it to converse with the the Creole staff. He was an officer during the war, and has some wartime connections to Mr. Black, but he does not speak of it. He is very reverent of Mr. Black and will never speak ill of him.
<#bill: Question: The description above says that "French" is probably not really is last name - that's why I didn't make him a page when I was making pages for the Blacks et al. I take it, we've decided that French is actually his last name? Does that mean we can remove that outdated part of the text? Will we eventually get a last name for Nora? Or is she like Madonna? #>
**Nora has no last name based on her life as a slave.
I dont know where you got that assumption Bill but it would be wrong.
No one ever calls "Mr. French" by any other last name, but the Black's never call him that, they call him Martin. It is common knowledge that Mr. French, is not his correct last name, but it is unknown to the PCs what his real last name is.**
The Chef, [[LouisLavinie Louis Lavinie]], is the only other white staff member. A huge fat man he has a jolly laugh and thick red hair. He claims to have been "classically" trained but has no "proof" other than that his food is tasty. He loves the children, and is constantly sneaking them treats and things (much to the chagrin of Mr. French). Louis can read and write and teaches any interested children the same skills. (Anyone who is interested would learn the basics from Louis, and then once they showed the aptitude, would be given jobs (signing in guests etc) to improve their skills.) Other than on the job training, Sunday School, and lessons from Louis the children have no other formal education.
[[Nora]], a willowy black woman is the head maid. She was Mr. Black's slave, and still basically is in all but name. He treats her well and she runs the house and hotel in the shadow of Mr. French. Mr. French is big and vocal, the face of the hotel, and is "in charge" but the place really dances to the beat of Nora. She believes good help is doing things before people realize they need to be done, and that includes whipping the children if necessary. Cross Mr. French and you earn a beating and lack of supper. Cross Nora and your life is hell, and the children know it. They don't so much hate her as they do fear her. Her word is law, but as long as you do your job and stay on her good side all doors will remain open for you.
[[ElizabethClark Elizabeth Clark]], the matron, is the person the children interact with the most. She is employed by Mrs. Black to do the real work involved with running the orphanage. Keeping the children clothed and fed, putting them to bed, caring for them when they are sick, all these tasks fall to Elizabeth, or Mrs. Lizzy as the children sometimes call her. She lives and sleeps in a small room underneath the loft where the children sleep, acting as both a caretaker and a prison guard. She is not cruel to the children, but this is a job for her and she treats it like one. She is very even handed with the children and by the nature of Nora and Mr. French ends up being the good cop more often than not. She is not above spanking and punishments, but at the end of the day, the children's best interest are in the forefront of her mind. She is a large (big, tall and muscular, not fat) creole woman, with a big laugh. She and Louis flirt a lot but nothing more appears to come of that, otherwise she spends her nights alone. If she is not actively dealing with the children (when they are at work, for example) she acts as a maid / laundrywoman. The linens and other sundries are stored in the large open area under the loft where the children sleep.
[[AbnerHayes Abner Hayes]]
Note: There are between seven and twelve at the orphanage at any given time.
__Lack of Different Children Discussion__
<#bill: Question: Normally, I'd think that orphanage have a relatively steady ebb and flow of children. Children come in...children age out and leave...children come in. The way we have it set up and it seems all of the children at the orphanage (not just the PCs) are about the same age and there's no older children leaving while younger/newer children enter. That may be just a practical issue...I can see having to create enough NPCs for 10 years in people coming and going being a lot of work for Kel. But I wanted to ask: 1) Is that on purpose? 2) If so, is there an in-game reason for it? (like the orphanage just opened up recently and this is the first crop of kids?) #>
**You are absolutely correct that it is a pratical thing, that creating 30+ NPCs to keep the orphanage stocked, would break Kelly's tiny little mind.
The in game justification is that Mrs. Black starts up the orphanage, and likes "raising the children" but at some point after Ella comes to realize that they dont really have the money to keep this up. So they stop looking for "new" children, and just deal with the ones that they have.**
__Posed Questions by Kate__
<#kate: Kate has some questions for folk. Many might need to wait until earlier events are figured out, some might be none of my business =P but I need to get them out of my head before I go...more crazy: #>
1. <#kate: Court: Do you think Jeanne's native language becomes apparent? I think it would be neat, and something Ella would be curious about, if only learning a few phrases here and there rather than becoming fluent or anything. #>
<#court: Yes - I think it's definitely apparent. I suspect she's old enough that she will retain an accent at least while she is at the orphanage, and we'll see what happens for later. And even though she'll gain English fluency quickly, I suspect she will retain some odd turns of phrase that will pop up periodically. #>
<#kate: Cool. I bet this will come out in the events but I'll keep my ear out for stuff that Ella might pick up #>
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2. <#kate: Court & Jonah: You guys have two different dates for your characters arrival. Given that your siblings, is there a reason the other characters would know? #>
<#court: There is a reason, and the other characters will probably be told something. However, to figure out exactly what they are told, I believe that should play out in our arrival scenes or, if it doesn't come up there, in another event soon after. #><#jonah: What she said. #>
<#kate: Neat I'll look forward to it =) #>
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3. <#kate: Jonah: You mention Ollie likes dancing. Do you mean he's just wiggly or does he like to / grows to like more "formal" dancing (like steps not tuxedo waltz)? Ella definitely likes to dance and might abscond with him if he's a willing partner =). #>
<#jonah: I think he'd be up for it! I imagine sometime in his teen years he could be entertained by perhaps a jazz club or a zydeco party... (I'm not sure what's historically appropriate, but that's a minor matter!) #>
<#kate: Very fun. This brings up another question (see below!) #>
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4. <#kate: Bill & Jonah: How does Cole / Ollie get their nickname? Cole introduces himself as Nicolas in the initial Ella event, so does it come after that? How about Ollie or does is he always called that? #>
<#jonah: At least for Ollie, he gets his nickname from his family. His real name is Olivier, but apparently Ollie is a reasonably historically popular Cajun nickname. He's going to arrive with very little English (much like Jeanne) but I think he learns quickly, both from the other kids (perhaps Celeste?) and from Mr. French. #>
**Mr. French is not much of a teacher, but he would use French if it was clear that Ollie (or anyone) didnt speak English.**
<#bill: Kate, I hadn't 'officially' decided. Cole is an established nickname/diminutive form of Nicholas - so that would be the easy answer. There's also his 'coal' black hair and dark eyes... so maybe that's how he picks it up. But I will say that he definitely doesn't come to the orphanage calling himself Cole. I am content for it to come about at the orphanage if that's what happens, but it's fine if it doesn't. Maybe he picks it up in the military or sometime later as an adult. I will note for Kel that it is a nickname he likes, so I'd ask that it's not a name that any npcs whom he doesn't like come up with for him (like Mr. French, I'm pretty sure he'd not going to like Mr. French). If it doesn't happen at the orphanage or by the time our game comes to a close, that's cool. #>
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5. <#kate: Bill & Kelly: How does Cole carry his soldiers around? How does Callahan keep his coin? #>
**Callahan keeps his coin in his left shoe when he goes about his day. He often has it in his hand as well. (He looks at it before he goes to bed and puts it under his pillow when he sleeps.)**
<#bill: I think he just keeps them in his pockets. They are pretty small. Now, that may change should issues arrive at the orphanage. If one of the adults tries to take them away or kids try to take them he'd have to get a little more creative in how he holds on to them. No shoe thought...that would hurt. #>
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6. <#kate: Ann & Kelly: How does this seem to you? [[PianoEvent]] #>
<#bill: Maybe I missed something...Why is there a piano event already? It seems premature as I'm not sure we can say who is there or not. #>
**Its in progress. The idea is to have stuff to drop in, once characters establish they are doing things other characters and figure out if they are involved and things can evolve and change. I have the core characters dealing with stuff. If it later turns out that Cole would be involved with the event then we will alter it.
In the same way I would be happy to have Cole having an event where he goes hunting with Abner and Callahan if you think that would happen, and then we will evolve it if other PCs feel they would be invovled.
I dont see what the problem is.**
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7. <#kate: Kelly: When does Callahan first discover the Bell Tower? I'm assuming well before Ella's arrival, but thought it might be a good Timeline Event to include. #>
**Callahan knows about the Bell Tower before any of the PCs get there. He is happy to show anyone brave enough to go out on the roof it at his earliest opportunity.**
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8. <#kate: Can anyone go out to the Bell Tower or is it King Callahan's domain (especially with his money stash up there?) or some kind of rite of passage?
#>
**Anyone can go out there, as I said Cal is happy to show people, he likes showing off. He keeps his stash of money out there, and I feel like other characters keep important things they dont want the adults to be able to get at out there as well. He sleeps by the window and usually knows who comes and goes, so it would be difficult for someone to take his money, but if someone feels like they would we should have an event!**
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9. <#kate: How does Erin react to Shawn's adventuring? #>
**Erin has a "boys will be boys" mentality, she worries about him, but she is not mad.**
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10. <#kate: Is there some kind of curfew those who sneak out adhere to? I feel like Ella would be one of them, and would be interested to know if there are "rules" the children have figured out. #>
**The children are "in bed" after dinner, and are expected to be up and starting work at 5 am. There is no curfew, but if you are late for work, or sleeping on the job then punishment ensues. Also if you are not in your bed at 5 a.m. when Mrs Lizzy comes to "check" there is hell to pay.**
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11. <#kate: Are there any "hazing traditions" besides Mr. French's initial beating? #>
**Introduction to the Bell Tower, nothing else that I know of.**
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12. <#kate: I'm trying to get a feel for how old the other orphans are when Ella arrives (selfish I know). I realize that precise ages may not be available as the kids might not know, but a general sense would be great: #>
<#kate: a. Deco arrives in 1866 at "a very young age" - like 3? 5? #>
**I'll reserve rights to change things as I sort this out, but Ill make educated guesses.
5 for Deco.**
<#kate: b. Jefferson was left at 6 but you don't mention a year. Any idea on how long he's been there? #>
**A while. Let's say he's 10 when you arrive?**
<#kate: c. Who is older, Erin and Shawn and by how much or are they twins? How old are they when they arrive in 1865?
#>
**They are twins. 9**
<#kate: d. How old is Valerie? #>
**Indeterminate, young but acts very mature. say 8**
<#kate: e. How old is Callahan? #>
**10**
<#kate: Cool so just to consolidate for my brain in 1869:#>
- Callahan: 10
- Celeste: 11
- Deco: 9 <#ann: I think he is 8 in 1869 if he is 5 in 1866, though of course it depends on where his birthday falls.#>
- Ella: 9
- Jeanne: 10
- Jefferson: 10
- Minnie: 10
- Nicholas: 9 <#ann: I think it's 10. Bill, confirm?#> <#bill: Depends when in 1869. OOG, his d.o.b. is Dec. 21, 1859 - so, probably 9?#>
- Ollie: 8
- Shawn and Erin (twins): 9 - <#ann: if they are 9 when they arrive in 1865, shouldn't they be 13 in 1869? #> <#kate: I know Kel was aiming to have folks be around the same age - so maybe he meant 9 in 1869 in the above? I don't really care, but in terms of meeting people it's definitely different to meet a 9 than a 13 year old, and I find it weird that Shawn would follow around Callahan if he's that much older#> **Kate is right with the intent to have everyone around the same age. So 9? My brain is broken when it comes to this.** <#kate: Okay - so to conclude, Erin and Shawn are 9 in 1869. #>
- Valerie: 8 - acts very mature.
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13. <#kate: You mention Erin's particularly cute (Ollie apparently is too). Is there any effort to get these kids into real homes? #>
**This is just me, but I don't see a particular push for adoption.**
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14. <#kate: You mention Louis being willing to teach kids to read / write. I feel like Ella gets inspired because she finds the music (see her description on the timeline page). Are these teachings like lessons too? Like there's a time and place for it Ella would note and be able to jump in on or something to ask about? #>
**Louis just does it after dinner, reading to the children, having them read him recipes and things.**
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__Lessons Discussion__
15. <#kate: Maybe much will be clarified if we could work out how the lessons work. I would think they'd happen daily, maybe after morning chores, and Elizabeth would teach them. The whole schooling aspect just strikes me as odd given that they're supposed to be little worker bees. Perhaps that's just me... #>
<#ann: Kate, I'm confused why you think the schooling aspect is odd given that they're worker bees. They aren't being schooled, that's the point. Louis just sort of shows the kids who are interested when they ask, rather than having a formal school time. I'd imagine that some days all the kids want some lessons, other days everyone is too tired, and on most days only a couple kids bother, though, as always, Kelly can correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding. #>
<#kate: This is pretty irrelevant a clarification now, but that was my point: They are worker bees which shouldn't include being schooled unless more randomly by Louis I believe the below contradicts this, which is 100% fine, but that was why I brought it up for discussion. #>
**I think Ann has it right, there are no direct lessons unless a child shows some sort of talent or aptitude.**
**No schooling, see above**
<#jonah: I disagree - the documents describing the history of orphanages were pretty clear that education //was// a priority!
From [[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QxFX5tGrH4XJMDHaosts29tKv2vn3BREz51RyQuo5Fc/edit?pli=1 Orphanages]] (posted earlier by Kate):
By the mid-nineteenth century education was emphasized over work, and middle-class women, who dedicated their time to nurturing their children and doing charity work, were actively involved in social issues pertaining to children. They played an important part in the antebellum reform movement, from the 1830s to 1860s. The reformers, responding to growing urban poverty and influenced by the transcendentalists, sought to provide shelter and education in the midst of nature for orphaned, neglected, abused, abandoned, and delinquent children.
They believed that separating children from adults in almshouses, placing them in institutions in rural areas, structuring their activities, and educating them would turn them into good citizens. For children who had already experienced a life of vice in the city, the reformers established industrial homes, houses of refuge, and reformatories with an emphasis on work and vocational education. The innocent poor–orphaned, abandoned, and neglected children–were educated in orphanages. Some institutions were defined by gender and others had age restrictions. By 1860 orphanages could be found in almost all states of the union. Only a few new states, and small states without urban centers, did not have any orphanages.
I'm ok if we want to make this into the orphanage from Annie or Oliver Twist, but since I know that some folks have an affection for keeping things accurate, I feel like we should give the Blacks some credit and let them run this orphanage under a philosophy similar to what's described above as "industrial homes" with "vocational education". That, to me, would certainly mean lessons in reading and writing, and math lessons as well.
Adding Needs for opinions on the question of education: #>
**Okay thats fair. I think they are getting plenty of "vocational" education, they get on the job training of cooking and cleaning basically. I am okay with them getting lessons as well, but none of the current characters are really set up to teach them. I will have to think how I am going to handle this NPC wise.
Also I am curious to how other people feel about this.
My gut is that a teacher (paid for by the Blacks) is brought in to teach the kids during the slow part of the day (10ish post checkout till 3 when guests start coming in...)**
<#kate: I'm cool with being schooled or not, whatever floats. If so, why can't Elizabeth teach them? She gets them up, they work until breakfast, do a lesson during breakfast (eat and write their letters or whatever), work, lesson 2 of the day maybe with a mid-day snack, work again, dinner, lesson, bed?#>
<#court: I like the idea of Elizabeth doing something formal, and Louis doing his ad hoc thing. Works for me! #>
<#bill: I'm generally in favor of the the realistic, until there's a good (read: fun) reason to deviate. So if education is the norm, then I say let's do it. But if someone's got an idea about how less education could lead to a good story/more fun, then I say we make history whatever we want it to be. Otherwise, I have no preference. #>
**Okay lets go with Elizabeth teaching. It means that the teaching cannot progress too much past basic reading and writing and math, since Elizabeth is not super educated herself but at least gives the kids the basics.**
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16. <#kate: Just being detail oriented, but I wanted to shoot this out there as an "average" day for these kids so I can picture it better in my head. Amend, comment, argue and all that:
Weekdays: (Monday thru Saturday)
5:00 am Wake up
5:15-10:00 am Work (prepping breakfast, cleaning, etc.)
10:00**-10:30** am Breakfast
**10:30-11:30** am Lessons with Elizabeth
11:30-2:00 pm Work (prepping lunch, cleaning, etc.)
2:00-4:00 pm Lessons with Elizabeth
4:00-8:00 pm Work (prepping dinner, cleaning, etc.)
8:00 pm Dinner (crust in hand)
8:15-9:15 pm Lessons with Louis
9:15 pm "Bed" (i.e. go upstairs and don't cause me (Lizzy) problems) #>
**Changed some times**
<#kate: Sunday:
5:00 am Wake up
5:15-9:00 am Work (prepping breakfast, cleaning, etc.)
9:00-9:15 am Clean up and Breakfast
9:15-9:30 am Walk to Church <#bill: - the children are lead, all tied together with a piece of rope#>
10:00-11:00 am Church Service
**11:00-5 - Free time**
++
11:15-3:00 pm Work (prepping lunch, cleaning, etc.)
3:00-4:00 pm Lunch / Lessons with Elizabeth
4:00-8:00 pm Work (prepping dinner, cleaning, etc.)++
**5:00 - 8:00pm Work (Prep dinner, clean, etc)**
8:00-8:30 pm Sit down dinner
8:30-9:15 pm Lessons with Louis
9:15 pm "Bed" (i.e. go upstairs and don't cause me (Lizzy) problems) #>
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__Sneaking Out Participants__
17. <#kate: This might need to wait until folks figure out more stuff but Jonah's answer above made me wonder who among the NPCs / PCs might be of the sneaking out inclination? I'm guessing Minnie, Valerie (unless it's to the cemetery), and Erin are nos, and I'd think Jefferson and Deco would fit into this too although they might be convinced. Ella's obviously a yes and it seems Callahan and Shawn would be too. How about the others?#>
<#court: Jeanne would be of a mind to sneak out, as long as she had a reason, be it to rebel or to support anyone she ends up bonding with. #>
<#jonah: Ollie might well be convinced as well. If there was excitement to be had, he'd be in. If you were sneaking out to do something he found "boooooring" he might just skip... or come anyway. #>
<#bill: Cole is motivated by two main things: Curiosity and a lust for adventure. So, if either it seemed like an adventure (probable) or it seemed that there was something new or interesting to see or learn, he'd be first in line to sneak out. Like Ollie, if he thought the purported goal was boring, he might not bother to risk the punishment. #>
**So it sounds like the list of sneakers thus far is:
1) Callahan
2) Shawn
3) Ella
4) Ollie
5) Cole
6) Jeanne
7) Celeste**
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18. <#kate: Are there other instruments in the hotel? maybe with Abner (like a harmonica, guitar, whatever)? I feel like Ella'd jump on any she can get her hands on. #>
**There are various guests that come though that may have things, Abner has several noise making things (a flute, a harmonica, etc) but there are no other instruments in the hotel.**
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19. <#kate: How are the kids tied together for Church? By the waist? Wrist? In my mind I see them lined up by height for some reason and then lassoed. #>
**They are tied around the waist, I don't think they worry too much about height.**
